Turn Around! Switch please.

Dear Reader.

Well, i thought i was done with christianity. I guess not.i am however done with church-inanity. I was invited to this thread, created by some people I met while at Bible truths forum. And i wanted to be open with them abotu my deconversion. Someone wanted to help me wiht what ever challenges i Have, and we have been threading since i posted the Angery Post.


http://polski8.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?board=coffee&action=display&num=1199310081



So far i have seen a few crittical errors in my own thinking and philosophy. And now i want to go over some Atheist arguements with this person. I dont want atheist debators to join in, i want to explore my own soup without too many cooks. We are at a place where i presented a Ferris Till arguement agaisnt fullfilled prophecy, and hope the conversation will develop well.

In the mean time i have taken to re-review christian appoligetic sites and to look for some rebuttals of Debunking Christianity people. I am playing fly ont he wall and want to study by observation come old John Loftus debate threads at theology web also. I hope this personal fight goes better with a spirital big brother assisting. For i am not a flea of scholarly knowledge, i am not a speck of education and study.

Sometimes i feel like god has a hook in my jaw, always ynaking me back and casting be out. I have not adopted either side's arguements for my own but when i woudl JUST QUIT all togetherand go onmy merry own spiritaul way something changes and i return to investigation. Desireing for Christianity.

So i digress somewhat and propose a different letter to the "people in my church"


TO Christians who say.............

Money Counterfit police "only" study the real bill so they can immediately spot the counterfiet bill.
You should not even look at what the opposition (atheists, extians) are saying, only know the bible.
Denounce those questions, denounce your wanting to make sure of the histrosity and rantionality of your Christianity. You are only letting eh Devil into your house. (Giveing satan a strondhold)
Who cares why the extian left, why know how to defend the truth, just quote the bible.


TO YOU i have a few thigns to discuss. It is because of thsoe shut downs to investigation that cause most now unbelievers to reject Church and flal prey to cunning arguments, and also what keeps them form goign back to church even if they DO find appoligectic answers that casue htem to return to worship.

There must be people who can help others who struggle with the Bible. There is a serious lack of people who are able to defend. As for dont care to know what the other side says,....Jesus took the Jewish teachers to bat, and likewise did Paul take the Greek philosophers to bat.

Do you think out Great Defenders of the Faith, our Macdowelles, Gieslers, Millers,Schaffers and Mertons ONLY studied the printed pages in the Bible? DO you think they NEVER struggled and searched over their bibles and tenents of faith?

Contrary to popular clechie not only is the counterfit cop throughly famillier with the "real bill" they are also well studied in that methods and materials of the criminal's bills. That is how they can proove in a court of law WHY they are counterfiet bills.

The counterfiet cop cannot tell the Judge the bills is false because it is not the real bill, and get a conviction. He must proove it.

The extian has heard these platitudes yet curioisity, rebellion, confusion, challenging, questions, all ahve prompted them to search for "WHY is this the real bill." You cant tell them it is the reall bill because thsoe are the false bills because they dont say what the real bill says.

This is circuler reasoning and it will fail with or without Christ in your heart.

people who say "dont look" are troubleing to me. I cirtenly wish i never questioned. i wish i could have been satisfyed with the "real bill" because it was real. Butinstead i had to say ' If it is the real bill, it should be supported in history and in testing.' And i tell you there ARE PROBLEMS with the bible that these extians DO FIND. Problems that have large christians books written about to help solve.

You really think it is better to close your eyes and pretend it is not there? I wish i could do that and not feel it was dishonest of me. Bu thten, to some are given the gift of faith. Some never have it enter their minds to objectivly test their bible.

I dont need to preach to them, I bless the Lord for them but there are others who are ment to defend and help those of us who cannot denounce every rational or challenging question. And i Bless the Lord he has provided for us also. To some are given the gift of knowledge.

I care why the extian left, and i care why i bounce around between leaving and returning. i care to search out all things and give and answer to any man who askes abotu the hope that is in me.

I do not feel that i am contradicting th ebible for this, but IAM contradicting the clechies of church-inanity.

God created Logic and out minds to explore andto use as a means to divide abd disearn truth. Hebrews teaches that god wants his people well seasoned in knowing good and evil. He also says that His people die for lack of kowledge.

How many times must i die? How many more must die because you christians tell them "dont look it is the devil", because we christians are being bombarded left and right to things "never heard before that make sence" and become fallen and wont believe the appoligetics because the info came too little too late or in isolation and the stifeling emotional anger of dissillusionment.

The enemy is cunning and gaining ground with his logic and his deceptions why aren't we keeping our soilders fed and equipped? Could it be that the Great apostacy might be AIDED by our common silence and platitudes of faith?

It is not because these people question and do not denounce, it is because not many of US know the answers.

Is my christian walk to be 30-80 years of sticking my fingers in my ears singing "la la la your the devil i cant hear you?" or maybe jsut maybe God uses the questions to test and train you to be a service to the dieing and a warriour to the killers.

Because this Battlefeild IS my testimony.............

I cold not subsist in Christ comefortably ignoring history, ignoring the spiritual appeals of other faiths, ignoring science, ignoring contradictions, ignoring OT atrosities, ignoring Doubt, ignoring spiritual questions, ignoreing the sight of many Cults and Denominations and knowing they cant ALL be the "real bill"

That is not my spiritual warfare, that is dishonesty. Lieing to myself about what i see and calling the awareness and the investigation "of the devil"

Did you know that in the bible the devil can NOT do a thing wihtout permission form god? Did you know god used the devil many many times to accomplish his purpose and teach his people?

But if you are not willing to enter the batttle, why should i tell you where the bible says those things?

AS for ' Just quote the bible it is the truth." ANYONE can quote verses, many misuse the bible even Atheists use verses in their logical argements, are they the "real bill"

Therefore i MUST study both sides and i must suffer the battle scars personally in order to proove and know that ours in the real bill and to minister to those with the counterfiets. And to be able to disearn wether or not the interpretations i create are real bills.

There is another side to this that may say.....

"yes and see how much trouble you been through, better to only know the bible." and
"Many extians are so convinced of their new arguments and justifications that an appoligetic might not be abel to help them.... Let god sort it out, see he sorts you out, you cant even stay convinced of the Anti christian side either."

I guess i can see that, figureing thsoe who are "out" have the same appoligetics i have and some may have god's hook in their mouths also. Yet i am one who wants to be able to help also, from my own experiences and personally in the everyday real world.

This real world where the "supporters" say leave "them" alone jsut witness Jesus Jesu Jesu Faith Faith Faith. And the detractors have heard that line so many times they say "Dont Bother"

But other than that you logic might as well be saying.....'why become a pastor, there are already so many good ones and no one listens to them either.'

So if i fight my fight, i would be fillign my office unto the Lord. The fight is His. To be cirten of my Chrisitanity wiht all my mind, body, soul, strength, in honesty spirit and truth AND to be able to minister to people who are questioning also.... WOULD NOT be "of the devil".

Contrary to how i must appear (such as ezekiel must have appeared during his year) as a christian yo-yo. I chose instead to see all this struggle, all this deception, all this war as training for the day the Lord may use me to teach someone who is also on THIS battlefeild.

It is not about Just arguements. It is about WHY is it wrong? HOW does it seems true. WHEN it was germinated within my spirit as a weed. Not only what it says but what does it mean.

Covert opperations if you will.

Justine.(dang ole spell check being stubborn agian)