Monday, February 25, 2008

Religious Debate by author unknown

The scene is a classroom in a University near you, as the professor begins to propound his atheistic non-sense to those in his charge:


The aging atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"
"Yes, sir."
"So you believe in God?"
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."
The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? "Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could ... in fact most of us would if we could ... God doesn't."
[No answer.]
"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?"
"Er ... Yes." "Is Satan good?"
"Where does Satan come from?"
The student falters. "From ... God ..."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience."I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil is everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"
"Who created evil?" [No answer] "Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness and Suffering. All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?" The student squirms on his feet. "Yes." "Who created them? " [No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?" [No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good, if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"
[No answer]
"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" [Pause] "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"[No answer] "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do." The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Jesus? "
"No, sir. I've never seen Him."
"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"
"No, sir. I have not."
"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus ... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" [No answer] "Answer me, please."
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"You're AFRAID ... you haven't?"
"No, sir."
"Yet, you still believe in him?"
"...yes" "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?" [The student doesn't answer] "Sit down, please."The Christian sits ...Defeated.

Another person in the class raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

" A Hare Krishna devotee actually sir, but yes, a believer in God, non the less! The devotee looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold, too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly becomes very cold. The second devotee continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can go 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 -- You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom, as if with a crash.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night, if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you... give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error …"

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed ...? How dare you ...!"
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears …
"Explain ... oh, please explain ..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue

… "You are working on the premise of duality," the devotee explains. "That for example: there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"
"Of course there is, now look ..."
"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The devotee pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless. The devotee continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Bible, the Gita and the Koran - all the Holy books tell us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own choice, choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor, as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the devotee replies: "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do", balked the professor.
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare …"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest teaching faith?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"
"I believe in what is - that's science!"
"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..."
"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters … The class is in an uproar. The devotee remains standing until the commotion has subsided.
"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent … The devotee looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter. The devotee points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor.
"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain ... felt the professor's brain … touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears to have done so. The devotee shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain, whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

Wouldn't the same reasoning apply to your emotions and your will? "Our philosophy is that you, the living being are hidden within that body, adorned with many wonderful qualities, and although I cannot observe it with my/our limited senses, or within the limited parameters which you want to place God within. "If I want to know your mind or better yet the real you (your mind, emotions, will and even you the spirit), all I have to do, if you are willing to be known, is be willing to seek to know you and to spend time with you.
"You can know that God exists, .... if you are willing ... Are you willing Professor?"

The class is in chaos.The devotee sits ... because that is what a chair is for.

Silence … Silence … Silence … Silence … Silence … Silence … Silence … (you can hear it)

The bell rings. "Class dismissed," replies the professor. "Time is up!"

Tuesday, February 19, 2008


Staring thrugh the mist Minds full of reflection.

First there somes grace, then comes effection

Then comes the yearning to find what is true.

Then, oh god, you find it is but you.

From whence then , this vile mentality?

That views form from within creul reality.

You cannot na-meme me, you cannot pin me down.

I put you on..... i put you off.

i ware you like a hat, i give you a shove.

And There's your's.... yes, i can even see beyond this. *frown*

My God is more real than your's, because i created HIM.

It is only your veiw of god that i can not see.

What is thing vile thing in side of me?

And why has the "real God" left me on a Limb?

For at the end of it all there is only one thing.

The Love for truth ,that i am ,within my being.

Neither will i bow my soul to an fragile Hope.

What i can toss away and i please.

And follow your way and do mental contortions....Jeeze.

I have something much more powerfull.

What is this vile nature that i find so wonderfull?

This nasty soul that needs redemption?

And who is my champion, that endures me thru all season?

That vile thing , my friend ,is my mighty ........

While you scream and tell me i need to have your god.

But what is my god, is something only i can experience. And never understand yours fully.

We can not make excuess for it, and we cannot predict IT's infinte meaning or veiw .

My God is much higher than yours will ever be, this vile mind, you would have me deplore.

MY god cannot be named for he can never be whole known.

Yet I will call It something...which i cannot ignore, and if i do....delusion my devil will always explore.

That vile thing, my friend.... oh how you wish to bewitch it....MY god will always ask why and how, when and shit.

That nasty creature you can never subdue, His name my friend, is ..........

THE MIGHTY ******.

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

another mildly visious rant

another mildly visious rant.

Ya know what, i think the ahesits sell themselves short. I mean they gave up to easilly, simply beacause all those Things seemed true, until the emotional and cognitive snaaypsiss started fireing.

It got too intence..........waaaaa.............cant take alittle fire? expand and test another theory for yourself. no you proudly state "i ahve catagorically denounced ALL religions as You do and i am so much happyier with life see i can do this jsut the same as you , no god nessacary. So Whaaa and your idea of eternal punishment is so cruel how DARE YOU put that on any god!

WE reject you, right guys?

And i wonder if , in light of their arguements if they ever practiced or tried to go deeper in havent tested all means, many of you have settled in being faithless because of all the insanity just as many chrisitans will avoid the "devil" at all cost. For you their cant be a god there wont be a god, there is only reality.

Yet you deny any kind of spiritual reality. With out really testing it. WHY....becasue it supposes a God?............anyway whats so BAD about their being a god? IS it the rules men make? because god dont want that either.

It says so throught out the bible.......GOD wants a people that mirror him. It not about omnipresent and ohh ahh mental states many of YOU have never even come close to experiencing. God wants you to grow beyond that.

But you will does not matter HOW you learn about reality, and come to know reality is not only like a dream it is also as if god was dreaming.

and sorry to sound so mean but why do people die.... because they must.....becasue they do, learn the lesson this evil provides and try to live for the true and that cultivate all the good things. God will reveal his reality for you, to you, as you apply efforts to attain knowledge of truth.

Stopping at athesit mental masterbation is merely a distraction, to you taking a look into your own mind and sprit and wonder about your own existance.........and to suffer the pain. But on a very deep and even logical and true level God and his fucking bible contain the words that lead to life abundantly, but there are NO true scottsman.

And if you will give up a proper search for god simply because THAT ONE IS FALSE> then you are a fool. And you are stuck in your pettiness. You think your giving me truth? The truth i seek is understanding not just arguments and walls. I am not an agnostic. I tried to be.......i tried to be dualistic i even tried to BE deadness for eternity and to ponder which parts of me stay and go and to imagine what not being would be. I could not. And your arguments are not increasing my understanding they are not progressive unto knowledge that would be a spiritual truth, and a logical truth.

You gave dropped out of boot camp boys, you didn't make the cut. You control conversations with collage rules and boyish antics. You ridicule many apologising perspectives of god, and do not subject them to new arguments/inquiry/discussion/consideration by you. Your knowledge is not gained it is memorised.

like EW.....ok..........

A Christian group of friends ideally grow as they discuss their bible, they tend to gain improvements in understanding and breaking down such petty things in their minds. They grow not by memorising and obeying doctrines, they come to truth by obedience, and sometimes the good Lord lets Doubt test you.

OH you poor poor baby.....yeah it fucking hurts.......that's reality.

And you cave the first REAL time you went to battle. It not about brainwashing it is about integrity to testing everything you think you know and to make sure you did just fool yourself Again.

EVEN CHRISTIANS have to practice this and have pain. once i left the fold and tried to crawl back in. But the fence is higher this have to REALLY SHOW ME.... but if only i would look harder i can see that little place that is just for me. I Love my garden, i love my choice, what if i give it up? I am defending my ground but if i will not consider the field in a different way, would i not be a fool? That would be like round two of trial by fire. Your just defending a post, not really in-guess-tigating god with you self, alone. You have quit at a mental stage where that insight comes as an ephpihany and you under understand there is no god, and you when fold, and you are very upset about that.

Now you spend your energy defending that view. and not defending what you really think......merely that you think, what another person convinced you of. Just like we Christians get "saved". This is my current theory..........and i will ponder it and test it and be sure of it before i go preaching to people TRUTH.............har har har.........thats not truth.