Friday, November 9, 2007


Do we become too intellectaul, and forget the simplicity of Christ?

Recently, after having found theses 'new revelationary' teachings, i found myself eating up anything i could digest, as fast as it could be served to me.

Isnt that greedy...... oh i see, we all prefere to call it, hunger for the Lord.....see the LORD gets all the attention ...ahem erm, amen....... Really? Jesus is pleased to see us gobble up meats, just to be eating? I mean , at least your seeking after truth, right?

Recently i have found myself over whelmed with information, and realised i had forgotten what all my studying is FOR. I forgot it is all about knowing god, not just about him, not just the record of his sayings. But to know HIM. I realised that the reason why people are so easilly decieved about things of the lord, is because we read so many books, and listen to so much information, and memorize rigid and calculated thought patterns with which to experience this god-thing, in just the right mannnor. Rather then to look into the Bible.

Isnt this Idolatry....oh i see, we all prefer to call it dilligence and disearnment, to rightly divide the scripture.....yadda yadda yadda....


Wouldn't Jesus wish for more than that? Dont i want to experience his own voice speaking His Word, while i walk, while i pray, while i wash dishes, while i sing, while i wrestle with the kids, while i relax.......

HOW can this be done!

HOW do we life with and for the Lord, and not need to keep our hunger/greed satisfied?

Humm doesnt this sound like a parable?...

A woman at some well.

IN the olden zen days, a master would speak a very obscure verse.....such as......."When you are hungry, eat. When you are not hungry, dont eat." And the proper student would go an ponder that one verse. And not return to the master untill he is satisfied with the answer...and better still he realizes that answer and thanks the master for his lesson.

We have the MASTER, and he has given us MANY verses to ponder, He is eager to tell us many answers, But like with the zen master you must need zen, you must also need truth, as you need the very air itself. Because HE IS the air you breath.

And he gives us many teachers, but test all things, test all your thoughts and voices and add knowledge to a living understanding without intellectaul obsession.....not attachment to strict form and answers but leaning on the voice of truth, Jesus Our Saviour.

Test Him, he will not change his truth. When you have learned the Mind of Christ, and have put to the cross acres of mental lands you ought to be able to look into any scripture and see truth brightly. Truth becomes your way of truth , you love, you pray. The Buddha would have called it "you pick up a blade of grass and make a scripture."

Now for fun of the thread, "the faithfull" must figure out the bible verses i have alluded to during the text ( esp the hidden ones); And the readers can give the lessons and questions they have of the Lord and his teaching to them.

please forgive, if you want me to i will just shut up when i get in a preachy mood. Its all a part of ........ IZM

what about this?

i absolutly know this frustration.

When one goes off to seek truth and then finds many many interpretations of the same truth. It can drive a person nuts. literally. i have been almost to suicide over "Lord which truth is yours"

He hasnt told me everything YET, but happilly he preserved my life while i wait on him. Along the way learned that for every knowledge and truth you discover you will also find rebuttal. Each person pursuedes himself according to his knowledge. We know the source of true truth is God, so we keep trusting him. We also know that no man has "got it" so we take Pauls words that each person must be fully pursueded in their hearts. We know that the Holy SPirit also teaches us inso far as we are able to recieve, so we MUST remain flexable to concider his revelations in light of truth already learned.

The GOD that is all TRUTH must have a truth and an interpretation that is wholly correct, yet he also speaks to each of theses individauls in their way of understanding. But then what do we do with people who seem very opposed to what seems plain to ourselves?....

The Atheist asks us the same quesiton, to them it seems painfully obvious that the old testament god was .....shall we say less that savory. You cant get them beyond their outrage. And you cant get past a persons smug religion either, for them it is obvious what ever they belive. My oppinon on the matter is that since the mind of Christ is so large, he is able to impart different veiws of truth to each of his people. These people might have individaul theology that serves to guide their living and belief but anything they learn in life that is of truth, or causes them to see more clearly the WAY of the Lord(if not the lord), has only one source.

Jesus has a call on YOUR life, to teach YOU what he has for you. And we would all like to see the world do it just like we have learned but that is a fruitless prayer. It is best not to worry about them but also important that we dont worry over ourselves with so many interpretations out there. At some point you have to call yourself settled, because the TRUTH is that there is NO END of arguement and difference.

You will never find a perfect teacher who stands unopposed. You will never even have a complete revelation for yourself....and Lord have mercy if you do because then YOU would be the one the world lines up to oppose.

the biggest lesson i have learned is to WAIT.

Become famillier with the Holy Spirit within you. Trust, he lets you know the truth for you. And should you come along a few years form now and find a deeper well of truth to dive into, then Dive. Before you found this place you where dove in, and now you swim here. Bottom line is Christ is going to conform your mind to His own, and he does this by working with in you, not by theology alone.

Theology is a way to have witness.... The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and also the spirit (you) the water (flow of truth) and the Blood (Christ's mercy) We offtian dont live our lives any better by conforming our minds to ciritan thoughts and teachigns and having the right form of theology. Instead we live our lives by conforming to the working of the Holy SPirit.We are not intellectaully saved. [/i]

From: If I could Ask God Just One question.

so many excellent questions......

let me quothe form the gospel according to the Band Rush.....

"Well, you can stake that claim Good work is the key to good fortune. Winners take that praiseLosers seldom take that blame. If they don't take that game. And sometimes the winner takes nothing.

We draw our own designsBut fortune has to make that frame. We go out in the world and take our chances. Fate is just the weight of circumstances. That's the way that lady luck dances. Roll the bones

Why are we here?Because we're here. Roll the bones

Why does it happen?Because it happens. Roll the bones.

Faith is cold as ice. Why are little ones born only to suffer? For the want of immunity Or a bowl of rice? Well, who would hold a price,On the heads of the innocent children? If there's some immortal powerTo control the dice?

We come into the world and take our chances. Fate is just the weight of circumstances. That's the way that lady luck dances. Roll the bones.

Jack -- relax.Get busy with the facts. No zodiacs or almanacs, No maniacs in polyester slacks. Just the facts. Gonna kick some gluteus max.

It's a parallax -- you dig?

You move around,The small gets big. It's a rig. It's action -- reaction Random interaction. So who's afraid..... Of a little abstraction?

Can't get no satisfaction. From the facts? You better run, homeboy A fact's a fact From Nome to Rome, boy.

What's the deal? Spin the wheel. If the dice are hot -- take a shot.

Play your cards. Show us what you got. What you're holding. If the cards are cold,Don't go folding.Lady Luck is golden; She favours the bold. That's cold ! Stop throwing stones. The night has a thousand saxophones. So get out there and rock, And roll the bones.

Get busy!

Roll the bones Why are we here? Because we're here. Roll the bones

Why does it happen? Because it happens. Roll the bones........

god is the recipetical of all Knowledge, we are the receptrical of infinite questions, he must fill us to the complete so that we may comune and be His creation after His image...

knowing and well seasoned in the knowledge of good and evil, like he is. that takes drama, that takes pain, that takes defeating all our sin under the power of his Blood....

and by His very Name, Jesus Christ our redeemer.

there is a lesson to be learned in every aspect of your life, that will compele you....( us all in his perfect time) into the Image of His righteousness. Whats the point of it all?!............. that we may know the Lord and he may know us and fill up all in all.

that The Lord can have what he's always wanted......A people that walk with him in all their ways, of undivided mind, which is carnality......self-reflection reather than god my oppinon.



“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” (Stephen F. Roberts)

well met, mister stephen, my rebuttal.....

I contend that we are both , His creation. I merely also believe he is personal, and you belive he is impersonal, tantamount to non-existant . When you understand that it does not matter what we think, you will find that we are still in this state of being that we call life. I prefere it to be God's creation, and myself His child. You prefere to raise yourself. I am sure you can see why i disreguard what you think.

Thursday, November 8, 2007

Circa 2000 CE, the deconversion years.

WHAT I GOT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY. (from the zen master's joke book)

I am not sure how to start this essay. There will be a lot of information i need to get off my chest. And i am sure that this first draft will be in insane zen mistress style, of free association writing. But i will start with a small background about what happened and why i am not a christian. (( post script, how fickle the intelligent mind, any good argument can toss it about))

I accepted Christ when i was 13. I had already had a "church" relationship with Jesus, as a small child starting form about 8 years old. But at 13 someone answered all my questions and offered me Jesus as Lord of my life. They where fundamental Christians. I immediately ate up the scripture and began having fantasies of teaching large groups of people. It was not long before i could start seeing bible verses and warnings in everything i saw. I studied deeper.... I thought myself an apologist.... and spend lots of time studying prophecy and argumentation of other religions, and the human condition.

I had a typical pattern. I was what i call "on fire, for the lord", for about two weeks at a pop. Then in that cycle, i would start asking deeper questions, ethical in nature, then biblical , then historical, and then is tarted looking for evidences of god in the world. Followed by studying other religions out of curiosity. These things "god in the world" "proof" i rarely saw my faith would die, or go to sleep for long times. Then came regret, the seeking, and the total re dedication of my life to Christ again. It was a constant cycle lasting for about 13 years. Deep study of ideas, philosophies, thinking processes, and my own study of life and what i thought was right and wrong.

But i still thought myself a "christian" at the soul level. During that time i have been a Zen Buddhist, a new ager, a witch, a shaman, a Wiccan , a Baptist, a Presbyterian, a Pentecostal, and a catholic.

Each religion leaving me stuck with the very same cycle. I should have known then that it was not god leading me back to himself but myself leading me in circles. or i could have considered it the fault of the cycle itself, and question whether it was there as a fail-safe of sorts for discovering truth.

And that is what i did. That is what i had been doing. Trying to find the that one thing that causes all religions to expose their lies. Call that "testing god" if you will. But i was seeking Him. ONLY HIM!

I wanted to be right with god. And to do so i would have to find and obey his truth.

So began my actual zen process. To make a short story long, i needed to ask god WHY!

I followed every strain of logic. And discovered that most of them are forgone conclusions. You only see what you want to see. Like the dead people in a recently popular movie starting a balding typecast action hero. Then i began wondering why we are afraid of truth. So many people got so many good and true ideas. But no one questions things. They look for a plausible idea and make sweeping life changes to conform to the plausible idea. This is religion. This is how your Satan works. Other people call it personal demons, the Chief one is selfishness.

Solomon said it right; there is no new thing under the sun. And he sure was not talking about technology. See we make our destiny. We each have our written legacies to study.

And all they are is the results of another mans circular reasoning. The evidence of this is in the very arguments about the different religions. If it Can be argued then it CANT BE truth.

That is why the old zen masters would not talk, or tell you what they really knew. But what about me, i am the insane zen mistress?

I have taken "telling it like it is " to another level. i am not afraid to tell the truth, because i know That it is according to my own circular reasoning.

i am just like you are, and actually telling you the complete truth, but i leave you to make the argumentation. This is also an explanation for the verse. "Carnal man cannot understand the things of the Spirit."

(waits a few moments while you digest that because it was a mind blower)


That was infinity. Eternity. Time is irrelevant. If you where following my thought process you would have been confused maybe speechless. If you are reading my book just to argue me then you will be in stress trying to battle my every point or making sweeping remarks like "she is full of shit" "or Satan" "she is wrong" "she makes no sense" AND "she is absolutely right i adore her"

Fact is i am not right. if i knew the enlightenment or salvation that you consider true, then i am still a slave to religion, and hell.

That is the meaning of

"My peace i leave with you"

"The peace i give you , i give not like the world gives. But it is peace that passes understanding."

Chew on that a min,

Time's up.

Wednesday, November 7, 2007

old postings as a christian

( i joined this site about half a year into my un-de-conversion, while i was studying Ray Smith's site. At the first , all this new universalisum realisation hit the right spot in me, and according to the people in the bible truths forum. and it was all a fresh of breath air in light of my experiences in my assemblies of god dieing church. so i was Excited in Jesus again. But quickly began to see the non-thinking blah blah babble, cult leader worship shit that turns me off. and turned out to be very dissappointed there. but i had high hopes at first.)

I am very happy to see the minds at work that i see here. All my life i was a "strange kind of christian"..."and a strange kind of buddhist" "and a strange kind of hindu" and again a STRANGE kind of christian"..........i'd sit there and wonder why no one else seemed deeply moved by truths, or contemplative, or to vocie out their reasoning with others, besides god. I admit it is very frustrainting to have yourself opened to deep truths and cant even find the words to express them, and know that not everyone can receive at this time.

I would ask deep theological questions and never really know it was "out of my leauge", but i know that it is my mission on earth to seek truth , to seek god and his meaning. I am unimpressed by theology, and philosophy alone can't share your meaning with others. I believe scripture but the paper alone will never yeild the fullness of truth. It is Proper understanding of what is God's holy imutible it a thing you can print and hope to understand by your knowledge? I think not...the Word of the lord is living and breaths and contains all things for all of us.

I am excited that other people here think and are not reaching for ready made understanding to conform to. It is good to confess and reason and pray with and to god, but it is best when we can all thinky freely and reason together and grow with god together. I Have to say reading Ray's teaching taught me that, yes i can use these scripture to(and as i do) understand god, and learn to accept the greatness that he has shown himself to be in my life and in the lives of others....And of course shown himself in the Bible......and also the few who are his right now............(groans)

Why is it a few....why JUST A FEW..........Truth is marvolous and wonderfull.... to be reconciled to god and have the chance to know him thru the word and thru come we CANT ALL see it .or explain it.or anything but show it and believe it.... It makes it feel like dry dark land out here, and i look about myself in church and wonder.............few lord? only few?....why not these who pray and seem to desire you? and oh my gawd how vain and evil of me to even say why me and not them too?

I may also still be lost, for it is the lord alone who gives righteousness. And if i am lost and the many are lost then it is still few and i pray the lord brings one of the few around my place that we (in my church) might learn and know the lord also while there is mercy. Why am i practically a heritic, now that i can understand scripture and that it never was ment for a theology..but an instruction into the knowledge of the living GOD to us... .. about how he is providing that way to LIVE for all of us. ( each of us) ( you individaully as he will and works in you).............God's loudest wish in the bible is "To have a people and to be their GOD"
the hardest part is believing it could be happening to you.
the hardest part is accepting it once you believe it is.
the hardest part still is to tell of your understanding to others.

Thank you for accepting me. Sometimes i ramble, sometimes i flounder, i hope i am allowed to share here, and hear what you all share and maybe throw some of my sence into the mix.

...... ( the follwing a responce to another person's prayer request, she was struggleing with her dissapoitnment with the "false church" is like theses people are living in a half deconverted state.....a rebound state. it would not be right for me to post her mind here.)

I know your pain.

I also live in this world.

Your questions are normal, and toward the right path. The point is you can only LIVE what god has you to believe..........the more you resist living the truth according to your understanding of the truth and the more you worry about pleasing men,than to obey god and know him being your goal .........then you will have more guilt and fear and pain and be open to falling into more error and complanceny. (being chastend and conformed to the image ( and understanding of god).

You must chose to obey god, believe the scripture and live peacibly amoung men. after all, that is what your heart yearns to do ...... your letting your fear control you instead of the truth. and you are hiding behind the words of mens knowledge, verses the way of god's knowledge.And then these things will fall into place.... all these things will be worked out in gods timing, all you have to do is continue seeking and praying and working out your salvation with Jesus.

Paul tells us, we are to let god be true and every man a liar....relax........if god was not working in you already, you could never have reached this place of questioning. Trust Him for the answer and the opperation of your life, for he is faithfull and soverien anyway. Even if they are still trapped in their thinking, you seek not to be, your walk with god is what you need to grow in, and let god grow in thier walk with god, in His timeing. YOU LIVE for god.........wash dishes, love children, enjoy prayer and study, learn to enjoy the simple acts of living and when asked have your thankfull your a woman.....(lol- we are told to have gentle and quiet meek spirits)May the Father reach deeper, and grant you understanding and instruction, and be encouraged to wait on the meditate slowly on these deep truths before forceing them down someone elses throat in your order that we will be better able to give a good word in season, perhaps god would give them repentence.thank you for listening, and may bless your Growth Justine.

(the following a responce to a christian who has just had a realisation into the adam and eve story....again i might at another time include his realisation but since i have no commenting readers there is no arguemnt to get the both sides of.....this is just me bablling so you know what kind of chrisitan i am.)

WOOHOO chuck!!! This is a revelation isn't it? you can say......Adam and Eve where created wise..........created with and unashamed of their testimony and understanding of god.............they in their own craftyness walked with god and god walked with them............unashamed unafraid of being wrong, no one to judge them as evil...ACCEPTED by the Lord as they where.

BUT THEN...........WHAT IF.............And the serpent said are you really right? Here, taste......check yourself out and compare..... Why have us "sin" why have us be out into bondange, and to become ashamed of the knowledge of god?...........In order that we might be trained in righteousness..........but i am getting ahead of myself...............(panting happy happy joy joy)

SO then what did God do? Gave them coverings.....gave them covenant, gave them a means to rightly divide .............brought about their salvation. Here, the origen of "one way religions" ( you must where armenni suits) Here, the origen of trusting in the forms of men and being ashamed of our nakedness, rather than to seek god in our nakedness.

Men think this passage..........this unscientific bad evolutional theory passage.... has to do with Adam and Eve froliking in the tulpis with thier dingle dangles hanging in the dirt............NOOOOOOO

It speaks of pureness in the mind and then awareness and self conscious killing the oneness with god. OUR sin.............. Men think when god gave them covering, he was teaching them sacrifice..........and in one way or two he was....but in another way he was giveing them a guide and saying this is the example, ware these clothing....(his covenant) Forgive me i thik i am stumbling all over the place....i maybe should have waited before responding LMAO...i rushed in NAKED.....and flashed you all !!!!!!- Justine.

(the following .well i forget what set me off that day.....)

some people ask, "should we go to church now" some people ask, "whats the point no one can know if they are saved or not", and some other people really go off the deep end and say well theres nothing we can do, its all god fault anyway, and drive themselves into mental paste with the details.....

I prefere the direct approach.OK. so today between my ramblings we are going to discuss a few verses. I did not know which discussion bored was meant for that, and am too shy to break rules, cause this pondering i am about to undertake might seem blasphomouse to ray(pun intended). But i am here to just think and my verse and interpretation wont be anti ray......(evil grins i am the anti christ, honestly)...........OUR verse for the day

"Some, to be sure are preaching Christ even form envy and strife, but some also from good will. The latter do it out of love....
"Knowing that I (also we ) are appointed for the defence of the Gospel:The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, rather than form pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
" What then! Only this.....
"That in every way, wether pretence or truth, CHRIST is proclaimed: and in this truth, (CHRIST) that i rejoice, Yes i will rejoice.

For i know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provisions of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation (hum i enjoy those words) and hope, that i shall not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ shall , even now, always....., be exalted in MY body, wether by life or by death."

Wow he said alot. in such short lines......if there are indeed so many few of these chosen and many not yet chosen, or the goers to hell if you so believe. Face it no matter what one believes, Christ Jesus is who/what Christ is, so lets not get stuck on the particulars and get to the finding of this CHRIST MIND.........

The Christ of Paul, that Christ who did POOF at him in the way to Damascus.............i mean you know theology whooptee do.

This Christ thing has got to be better that just knowing what is, what is not and it really MUST have something more to do with a thing YOU can chose, when and how and after the Lord reveals all the stuff to you. The kind of Mind of Christ that Paul had.....well it must have been more spectacular that to have all your thoughts in subjection to him and never leaning onto your own understanding........(wink wink) (er...somewhere in Corinthians)... must be something that is able to transend everything ...(god is a being ness)

People need to hear truth and see truth in action, and learn by faith and example , that's why Jesus is "Grooming" a few now, and i tell ya our behaviour has to be right instep with his will and that's more than knowing which bible to study.

It is a way to life, and when you are brought along to live it with surrender and obedience rather than thick study and worry , then the Living in the mind of Christ differs all your values and all your understanding, turning it over to the mind of Christ.

Once you leave Babylon you cant return. How can the mind of Christ become deceived again? Basically it wont matter what church your in when Christ converts you, and dont you think it would be nice if those poor lost souls could at least see ONE example of "thing" they are wishing for......

Not all Christians IN Babylon are wolves and shouldn't we be making disciples of all men......

If it makes you mad to hear the falseness..... Suck it up, your brother is hungry.

Even Christ went to church for the few.. how many of you where lost and alone because there wasn't even any kind of person who seemed to have the life the bible promises. We all where lost and struggling and many haven't let themselves seek as far as you have. i think it is better to learn to let go of my outrage and make friends of the very few.

Beside wether you are in church, a place you can more easily talk about the bible or on the street proclaiming your message, or one on one interactions form the grocery store to hanging out with friends, your life ought to be reflecting the Christ that's instructing you and that you are a child of his by correction and surrender which leads to perfectness.

Your "theology" is gonna slip out ,and so will the god given wisdom to know when to let it out. In the world, out of the world, what ever when god's in control you speak truth. And we are all short of the total glory of know why Jesus needs a BIG BODY....he is everything, he is all perspective, he is truth no matter what.

whew a big god indeed is taking his time instructing us.

and i think he can do it even if we "go to church" or "go to the world" or "still cling to our theology" because is he is beyond all that.. all i got to do is learn to obey him and walk with him.

In that mind, the Scriptures become word to you, they are your witness and your confirmation. But you can lose this bliss too with unbelief, that's somewhere in Hebrews. Paul st rived .... Peter st rived, i know i have st rived.......

how about you...

and yes it is our will God is testing.........

.what he is asking for.........

puke up that fruit of the tree of knowledge. ..........*ACK*...........Good boy now go make disciples.


((this last of a few, the typical atheist might enjoy......friggen snot ass basterds)))

hey i read that sight. Shortly after my 'reconversion' It threw me for a loop.

i spent weeks megga peeved at god for being what the author saw him as........but then when people would try useing such arguments on me i always felt like .........but that is not god as I KNOW him.

if you want to make a comment, expect her tribulation. They are obsessed with argument by outrage.

One such person asked me once if god willed a little 10 year old to get raped. I could only tell her no he gave us rules of behaviour so that we WOULD not rape but we chose to go agianst that............but she kept at me and in the end all i could say was

YES GOD DID!........GOD WILLED IT,.... god also suffered it with her and will ADVENTAULLY heal both her and her perprotrator........... But that arguement did not fare very well. I went away confused and she kept her anger to Jehova.

I suggest not useing the natural man cannot understand spiritaul things arguement... lol


Responce on the internet.

(been thinking of gathering up all my forum posts and dumping them here......kinda tempting to sit back and peruse my extreme brilliance....and/or sweat when the perfect reader will tare me an new intellectual ass hole. Living on the edge. In a weird schizo-effective kinda way. BTW i am really inspired by this old Fundy guy i have been visiting with and i maybe in the verge of going biblical up in here. i am laboring under the delusion that i could be the apostle to the atheist, .....(gawd that is nuts) ....

anyway, i am thinking... i am craving what that man has.........personally when i am in the light of the bible, there seems to be power and excitement and joy beyond logic. Dont worry, with the atheist i dont intend to thump, but those christians are gonna get two barrels full i guarantee it. lucky for ye godless...the house of god gets the whip of god first.......*evil grins*

anyway here is the "argument/reply"

Jason, (and select points of others)I enjoyed your thought about How that you can feel as if the "real" True god was so, she would happier with the atheists. and i would throw in, According to the bible.......god's first commandment is that we should have NO images of him at all, so you are not in sin, by holding no image.

Yes there are so many ways to view god from the bible, and those that severely contradict some of the other ways that have become "back bone" of history and theology.

What if they are simply tieing together the wrong notions? The oompa pa powerful ones because of our human desire to have it all and just the way we want it?
Small minds take grand truths and turn it into bullshit, your argument is you can't polish a turd.I agree. but aren't shits good things to have?but what of the grand truth, in the first place? I am not saying the obviously illogical, that i have to force my ideal god into including the very obvious evil acts he is reported to have done.

But i sure dont believe that the world would be ANY different even if the ideal god existed. I believe the real true god is so, therefore the world is as it is.

To Ralph, you said..."most people want an idealised god, then why have the gods that i have been made familiar with seem to not be THAT ideal? "

God wont share his glory with an idol, maybe he wants to give it to you. ANY image, view, forced set of reasoning's, constricting theology and totalitarian religion cannot introduce you the the real and ideal god. The real god acts, immediately, the real man receives,experiences, questions and filters(rationalises) and settles on a world view that totally makes sense of what that god thing meant.

Already that lesson he speaks or the interpretation he gives will be flawed. The god thing is here and now, and as man grows he will refine the understanding of that god thing until man and god can find common ground. You have not found any that suit you because you are looking to attain some dead man's limited interpretation.And to the other notion discussed, about how can this person judge the world view of that person and why would there necessarily need to be a "Different" kind of world IF that real god existed?

A person's true world view is biased on their mind and their experience in life. Weather it includes any god or is purely realist, no one can actually judge someone elses world view. This is why we will never convince each other that ours is in fact correct. It is correct unto ourselves and some other like minds.Like minds gather and seek more understanding of and testing of what ever world view they have.

Sometimes people with a world view gather into little groups and talk about it, and sometimes people get together and force others to "get it right" Any little group that would control the larger group by their just right ways, has already violated any real true god's agenda.Lets pretend this god did not exist, i would see the world that i see and experience things and relate them to my personal mythology. I see that nature is dastardly and immoral.Yet upon closer inspection is is very intricate and meaningful.

Maybe it is natural that man is like that too. Perhaps god. And therefore we need to keep refining our understanding on god to include science and mystical and natural. in order to find what could be truth and understanding.

If you dont mind, i can see the god who is not, anyplace and it is not necessary to proof to me weather the Crucifixion actually happened or not. According to my interpretation of the events in my life and understanding, i have patterned a pretty meaningful life out of pretending those lessons had real god's seal of approval.I have used or transposed something of confirm able truths in observing and using the spiritual picture of the Story.

Other people do this, it is natural, you watched a movie or you have heard a random line of truth in your life and applied it to your worldview, and grew in this or that direction. Must i in light of your rational, give up my illusion, if it worked for me as do your pearls of great price?Justine
8:24 AM, November 07, 2007

Tuesday, November 6, 2007

Imponderations, i met a true christian

I met a true christian......ahhh how rare a sight.

I know the atheists would tell you the argument ......."since they are so confused with doctrine, how can there be a true christian? " I would answer them.............christianity has become such a preverse false religion theses days that all the TRUE christians left that faith, and decided to seek god for themselves. Some are wiccan Some are Buddhsit some are Insane, but in the path of seeking god.......the true christians know, nothing can contain Him, he is not a thing we can touch or handle.

Buddha asked once if the Brahman had bodies? If they did not then how could they relate to us? Did Brahman ever hunger, or does he exist in our realm....ect........the point being that God is unlike us in all ways.............HOW can any of our VEIWS and interpretations be anything but FALSE?

Wheres my logic?...... God being defined as infinate as well as Omni, could not be contained in any veiw or religion. It that would be god SHOULD be a living flowing constant thing. And since anything that is not in this living moment where god is existing, cannot rightly define its essence.

I mean that people, any of us who has an expcerience of a veiw or an faith or a rational, cannot have attained the perfect truth.

Because knowledge and faith that is strapped to name and form.or chapter and verse, or digest and annaul......cannot be a living thing. Yes the bible is dead and all your veiws are quite valid.

.....but still...... i have met a true christian and ADORE this old fundy man......


Do i cringe when he thumps his Holy King James Verison..sure...sure. I would like to be a smart ass and tell him all about the imperfections of the latin vulgate and the times of King James, but what would my point be. It's the other words he says that show his faith. He fancys himself non denominational, bibleist....but when he talks about his father...........his heavely father, and the lessons he has learned in life and the wisdom of this father........i know that he knows , It that would be god.

I say it is a rare site, Any place in the world, to find a person who believing in wisdom and instruction and truth, seem to tap into that something that would seem to be of that which would be god. I may have only met 8 in my life. And they are not famous people, or important or dogmatic, or in leadership. I once thought that Osho guy was someone to look at but, to me his physical living did not seem to reflect someone free and enlightened.

I suppose that my take on the matter can be wittled down to perhaps, what i call a god knowing or a connection with truth, is subjective unto myself, and when i precieve that quality in others i am merely seeing a reflection or a simualr personality trait or, at the worse, reading to much in to the other person. Meaning i have cherry picked what ever things i thunk where good and my spiritual life took me to places i would find that thing i think is true, and when i rarely meet up with such a person that has thunk up the same thinks i thunk i am merely finding, by laws of percentages, a personality match. And therefore not a fact of god, or a proof of religuous truth, still it might be nice for us personality matches to make a chruch.

Secondly i do not care to proof any particular religion. That this man is a "true christian" he does not constrain my spirit to conform his understanding.

Firstly concerning the fact of god. SO you have me agreeing with you that i just met a personality type, that agrees with my veiw. How can i know that he or myself have found god?

I will try to think about that later.

This man i met, in simple psychological like terms, happens to share in his personal experience that same things i have , our thought lives and development of our understanding and application of the god thing in our lives is simular. We share the same truths, even if our dogmas and oppinons or even hard line questioning have gone after different methods.

Not unlike any of you who have gone thru deconversion and have come out on the other end a specific way. I would never tell you that you where never a christian, and i cannot say that any of you are not even still christians, at least in the sence i am meaning.

Some of you have great potential to be true christians.
So what do i think a true christian is?

i believe our books are myths. yet i notice the occurence of the story. God comes to man, teaches man how to know god, man begins self improovment............but man being stupid has to deal with his pride, anger, ignorance, control, lust, ect. ect ect.

I belive that all our religions are god speaking to different people and these people tried to share their message the message became a religion, and small minds took it over.

i belive that truth is true no matter who says it, and i also belive that god is truth no matter where you find him. And if you could not find truth in christianity, i would tell you then go and quest for what you would know to be truth.

I suggest to you that once you found sure truth, it would be of such a character that it will have been everywhere even before you began to seek it. Once you find this truth you can look at the bible and maybe understand.

It is not the order of the words, it is the inspiration of the eyes that read it. The person with the eyes that read the words, recieves the inspiration that he guides his life by. Are the words themselves the agent that inspires?

It couldnt be the words. Wisdom spoken in sanskrit might be true but i would never understand them. I would gather that if it was of truth i should at least feel the expression of the speaker's tones but i would not be able to be instructed directly by his words.

This fact of truth not being bound by(in) words and forms themselves, can be demonstrated in the many spiritaul relationships have occured throughout time where the master's and students did not know each others language, or where trained under a vow of silence.

Supoose these monks where allowed to talk after many years. Surely there would be some to connect and can discuss the sames truths learned, and there will also be other monks who have only leanred to miss talking.

It is in the person seeking, what the god thing responds to. So you the atheist may not have the need for a sky daddy, more power too ya, the illusion can be a bit confuseing.

it is not suited to everybody, god is bigger than you holding an image of him. IN fact it could be argueed that god's first comandment was not to have any image at all, therefore you are not in sin.

but all this talk is nothing compared to when people of like minds meet each other.

There is power in that. there is energy and brain wave technology and all that jazz.

I suppose if i was exactly like any of you, when i lost my faith and when i became anti evangelical, i would have had great simular experiecnes upon meeting a true human thinker.

I still do. It doesnt matter to me if the thinker i meet is free or a slave :P

well i take that back, i hate the smell of sheep. And prefere people who either know them the lord or have moved beyond that and have gone into knowing them the truth, and life.

I am sure i can make arguements with the bible about the god thing i am talking about. the one that the normal christians claim is their god of whom they are indignant and proud. (they missed the verses about god hating pride and casting down vainities)

But a true christian..........and a true human regardless of plastic outter coating of religion, is working on their insides, is humble and seeking first the kingdom of god before going out their way and forceing anything on anyone.

No i dont for one minit belive its religion or lack thereof that would condem a human. Nor is it specifically wether they know the religious jesus. or the hindu krishna, or nothing at all. But they should know the truth, not in fact but in spirit. SPirit will throw the average logical thinker......Lets retranslate it into the gosple according to atheist.....

Do you honestly belive that your average fundmental is on their knees praying to god? Do you think the average one ever struggles like you did? It is my understanding that, that which would be god would HAVE to strip you down of everything you cling to that is false or falsely include your dogma before you can see things as they are, before veiws.

But i still cant point out to you what that true christian is, likely you havent ever met one. It would be that person you remember to be wise, and could always help deepen your understanding. AH,...

You might say, well that was professor so and so and he destroyed my faith in christianity...GOOD i say............What was his take on truth? For him what was important in life.

Was it first and formost to thine own self be true?

My Atheist mother had done more to help me find what could be a real god than has any of my dogmatic friends.

But understand, i dont mean to even convert you to my understanding. i will not say thus saith the lord, because he that would be IT, does not need me to do his dirty work. With me a conversation in spirit and truth is one where there is confirmation, thought, realisation and imponderance.

need to break, proof read what i wrote so far and remember what my other thoughts where that i wanted to mention ...... brb...

Hum, i havent covered "So how can i know wether this man or myself have Discovered god? I have to think out loud a bit on that one.

How do you know what "feeling" they are talking about when you read the articles on the god helmet? Where nurology is doing experiements with zapping the frontal lobes and giving people religious experiences?

what experience are these people discribing? Obviously you know it is some other part of your awareness. You have experienced it. I cant discribe that, i think the Buddhists call it samhadi, the christian would call it the holy spirit decending, the Hindu calls it darshan.

people who can attain this on their own who find there is no seperate personality, how ever they imagine what is happening inside this zapping they are experienceing, will also find that it speaks truth.

it gives realization.

it can be a demon too. it can be the very bad place where suicide people decend to, that over bearing hate filled condemnation feeling before they actaully try the suicide.

same place
same energy
different imagination

how does that answer you about how can i know this man and i have found god?

When i lost my faith i went into witchcraft. I started having the exact same spiritaul experiences when i focused on the "faith" never changed.

I still purcude truth justice and the self mastry thing.

My goddess(es) taught me many things, uniteing nature and tao and the power of words.
Did not seem right to have a god without a goddess........but my basic actions where the same.
still had conscious, morals, love for things holy and true, compassion humanity. And fairness.

I needed a man god too in my paganism, but i thought the wiccan gods where me man-god means Wisdom and strong. With knowledge and Judgement.

Christians Jehova god is one sutied for men and millitary types, and wiccans Pan god is a sexaul submissive suited to angry oppressed wemon who need R-E-S-P-E-C-T...not for me

I needed Krishna, from the badhadva gita..........i craved Cungfusious, and Buddha. I needed to under stand the human nature, my sin, my mind and learn how to take up my cross and die dailly and grow in the knowledge of christ.

There was still alittle bit of that old tyme religion when i said that sinners prayer.

i settled on Shiva and Shatki.

i Do enjoy jhana yoga. But dont ask me if i ever studdied it or have creditntals.

i am the most undisciplined person i know.

well next to DJ.....but ...........*shudders* what was i trying to talk about?

Point is i have no way of instructing you how i know they got god, except that you know when you know. when it happens. And the good atheist challenges this .....that was special moments, finds it was just a natural happening.....just a brain spark, ........he may chose that but i chose in the momemnt of the happening.............recognize god.

know Him as unknown, and natural, of course he used narutal science, of course there is an explaination.

but.... that time, that moment that brain zapp, that kiss.........when they where real vibrant powerfull things, where god moments. As humans we seem to know what is good what is best what is perfect what we have and what we settle for.

but there are sometimes moments of clairity, pristine insight, perfect orchestrations of physical events, that i call god moments.

That could not be prooven, it can only be experienced as true. And i am no fool, those very same impressions in the minds of schizophrenics and idiots causes much grief. WE KNOW, that the things desired in religion IS that "perfect" Flow of relaity. and we KNOW most everything we see is chaos.

because we forget to not stop there. not get stuck in the what should be moment, the bitching and prooving moments, the distracting moments.....the only reason that god moments are not more regular is because people are always looking ....the alusive god moment lurks in shadows and waits for you to gase into your baby's eyes for the first time the child recognises you. or expresses love back.

those are living and true moments they cant be regulated. or prooven, they ARE ALL subjective reality. that each man has an oppurtunity to experience. IT...not matter when or how it appears, does not crave you to join a dogma, does not care for a thing, unless we know it is bad for US, it ..........our moral code, our take on the governing of our reality.... this is where the true what ever's are living.

well i suppsoe i sound like i worship human brain functionings.

i think as long as there is an element of doubt then what knowledg is not yet attained is in the realm of god. But we need to be cirtian we have exhausted all our resources, and not settled in this faith or that faithless because we ran out of options.

well i think i have bablled myself dry.

Friday, November 2, 2007

Pretty lonely blog

Of course i dont advertise. Maybe i am just not all that dedicated to a blog, but since it's the in thing........shoot i dont even know who to blog at. Or For.

SO i guess i does not matter what i talk about. No one is ever gonna see this place.

Thought, the voice of reason belabors this point, i still wanna type. I got lot sof things to talk about, but no one to say them to.

Husband thinks, the market cant crash ( in america)....we are too industral, he thinks unless we have nuke war, we will bounce back with in 6 months, because governments might fail but people cannot.

Wife thinks, we are all ready fallen, they jsut havent told us need to incite any fear...YET. She wants to stock pile food and arms.... but she is too damn poor to start buying them in bulk.

I been studying anti-christian stuff.....been observing free mind from fettered mind.

Been thinking of bloging a "conversation" with Lanel playing God(ess), and me asking Her to discribe herself and explain why she is so hard to see/know.

But i am not sure how much time i have before my husband pulls in for the week end.

Besides, its not like i have any readers hanging onto my every word......

"There is only us."

Yeah but theres not enough time.

"There never is."

What are you talkign about, as long as their is consciousness, there is always NOW.

"A split second of eternal time.... thats all I need."