Courtesy Flush

I crave silence in my mind. I crave to be liberated from the mental violence of religious conformation.

During my "deconversion" years i reached a place i call spiritual satisfaction, in my studies of Zen and Tao, and being that i craved a god thing, i adopted Hindu philosophy. I was happy , eclectic, and increasing in understanding and the fruits the Christians crave.

But as i am i have no niche, no label. I am neither Atheist nor Religionist. There are my personal flaws and i seek to master them. At best i would call myself a mystic and a sage. A sage with nothing to teach and no one to help.

I have been told, upon my reconversion, when i asked how it was that i attained peace during my out time, yet now in trying to be a christian i am experiencing mental turmoil; that Satan doesn't care what you do with the "Lie" but he will attack you now that you have the "truth" again.

I find that ... really fucked up reasoning. What that by virtue of thinking within Jesus this and Jesus that, that act of cultivating spiritual growth is to be attacked?

Suppose i do not believe in the theological Jesus, thus am damned, yet i credit his name for the answers to my prayers and for all the good things in my life, making me in obedience to the Bible and having "victory" over my sin, and answers to all my prayers would i fall under the verse where Jesus teaches that "he who is not against him is for him? He who is not taring down builds up" ?

If i have spiritual victory over my sin based on my own application of the teachings and say thank the Lord for it, would i be more effective a "christian" than the christian who has no victory, but constantly waits on Jesus and thanking him in advance for requests that don't come to pass, yet he believes in the theology?

I come to discover that the average person seems to believe in two gods. There is the God they learn about in church and thru theology, and there is that god they have a personal relationship with.
They believe in god because they have some kind of subjective experience of it via prayer, and spiritual growth. That personal relationship can be discussed among each other in agreement. Just like the Fundy man and i could talk about knowing god, and be in agreement.

The other god is the one of theology. When a human seeks to put a form to the god in their imagination, and to try and discover its revelation and to determine where that human lives in a theological sense. And in any place where the theological god is in disagreement with the personal god , the christian is taught that the personal idea must be abandoned or labeled demonic.


From my other posts one might determine i believe the theological god is man's creation.

IN fact if i was Satan, and i wanted to make sure humanity would never discover truth, i would create religions. I would keep a human from ever questioning whether or not what they have is true, or from objectively testing their understandings.

I am overwhelmed and desensitized form the arguments both christian and atheist. And seek the repose of my former and natural faiths. I am pleased by my ability to let go of the mental war, and simply breath the air, and observe the living moment.

Back to my two gods theory, lets say a Christian does not normally carry about their minds all the theological arguments in their daily life. He does not pray ...

"lord who is three in one, almighty creator in six days, forgive me for yelling at my children and help me be a better parent, as i know that you are working out my sanctification, to align me with my spiritual position of justification based on the eternal sacrifice of your son.......... amen"

They do not tend to justify each thought with theological debates nor experience god thru them. They simply experience the subjective reality and only bring out the theology when challenged.

It seems that unless one is carrying about the theology, they are relying on the same natural faith that i do, calling it spiritual growth and an appeal to theology is after the fact.

In my faith it does not seem correct to use the bible to defend our base human emotions. Greed, anger and ignorance. IF one verse tells me to love my enemies, i do not see it as correct to argue for an instance where righteous indignation could be applied. I cannot find it within myself to use hatred in one instance and call hatred disobedience in another instance.

My faith is to remove the least good form my moral character and to increase the noble. Such as Paul teaches..... whatsoever things are good, lovely, virutous, if there be any praise, think on those things. I find that if the christian would put half as much practice into applying the good of their faith instead of rationalising their desire to keep their evil human inclinations justified, the world would be better off.

Even as a christian this bothered me ever so greatly, i have a natural inclination to seek the good things, and cannot self justify applying hatred or even the justification of "well i am a saved sinner, i am human ect" being human is no excuse.

I have seen lately in various posts, smug Christians asking , who has deconverted for intellectual reasons.... they are under the impression that many leave the faith because we have sour grapes because god didn't fix everything for us. Talk about a straw man.

My Straw man, taught me one thing yet acted in a different way. My straw man was internally inconsistent, my straw man went up in smoke. And there was no man of rock to be found.

After much fair and balance inquiry i find that in the end all i have is my personal experience.

The god i find to be the most realistic is located within me. And the best theology i have ever found is in the baghadvadgita. and the best psychological/spiritual science i have found are in Zen sutras.

I find that it doesn't matter to me whether i am evolved or created or any mixture of the twain.

And i find there are matters in reality that i will never get my limited intelligence around.

Theology is a science for those far removed form the faith of the common man. Atheist theology also doesn't effect the experience of faith to the common man.

I find the bickering nothing but straw men. And entertainment more than an act of finding reality.

Here's what i know.

Human kind had existed in recorded history for over 8000 years, and humans have set into motion the means to practically exterminate themselves in a matter of 200 years, all in the name of convenience. We have only in the last 100 years begun to redefine our once common moral ideals such as family, higher powers, community, self reliance, freedom. We have long since left off development of natural science in favor of technological science, and i think that is a detriment to our human development.

I know that i am only a person with opinions and i lack education to defend them, as do most of us.


I know that Quantum Physics is fascinating and i would wager than their aren't many Christians in that field because the pure study of numbers would show that many of our spiritual thoughts are naught but equations that can be proved and disproved.


I find that in History and archeology the bible is but a pagan religion with not much physical support, as even is my baghadgadgita. I find that what would be true religion is a matter of discovering Wisdom and overcoming Human Evils with or without gods.



*flush*


*ahhhh the quiet*



*praise god*



IZM