Tuesday, December 29, 2020

Becoming The Snail (circa oct 9)

Excessive introspection is unhealthy. Stop it. Now.

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Good advice for restless mindsπŸ‘✌️

 

LeFraud Has Choked In SIX Finals why? πŸ˜‰ 
 
How can you know yourself without looking inside?

 

Hope Forpeace if the premise of Dharma Is that eventually after looking deeper and deeper you find that there is no self; that it is only linguistic convention that leads one to draw a line between what appears to be inside and outside and call one "me" while really no such distinction exists - what self are you trying to know?

 

@Golden Parrot Maybe "belly button gazing" was more what you were going for. It's taken me excessive - 30+ years - of introspection to unmake myself - unlearn a constricted understanding of self self and come to know my unlimited unbounded yet interconnected self.

 

Hope Forpeace what have you come to understand? 
 
@Golden Parrot Far more than fits in an internet comment. The story I can tell you is not the story I lived.

 

Hope Forpeace 30 years of practice and you can't say anything? Please try. 
 
@Golden Parrot I did: unlearn a constricted understanding of self and come to know my unlimited unbounded yet interconnected self.

 

Hope Forpeace so if I pinch the tree do you say ouch?

 

@Golden Parrot Take the path yourself - if that's the best question you can ask - you clearly need to.

 

Hope Forpeace it's not the best question; it's just that if I were to say that because of fire, fire Phoenix flies - and because of no water, iron fish swims - that I would be misunderstood.
 
Hope Forpeace do you think I could have asked a question such as the one about the tree if I did not have some amount of practice already? Could you suggest a better question I should ask? Please, for the benefit of others I ask you to say a helpful word.
 
@Golden Parrot Hope for peace is ignoring.
 
Lean like a Cholo one who has no place to stand cannot save those drowning in the river. The teachings of old are not meant to benefit the self. 
 
@ Golden Parrot That's not true. A guy in a kayak can save those drowning in a river, and he has no place to stand.
 
Too many ants ruin the picnic 
 
Lean like a Cholo see above 
 
One hopes that while deconstructing one's rigid identification of self and such the thing as it are..... That we get positively past the need to arrogantly compare and test ourselves against strangers who state their practice simply. Because at the end of the art of ones Noble practice of any kind they must realize that their knowledge doesn't have to approved by you. How would you adopt that which you didn't learn in your own words? Shit now i have been arrogant...perhaps we both will learn the end of our falseness. And be thankful for the the wisdom of a limitless self to have shared.
 
insanezenmistress sparing keeps the senses sharp and the reflexes quick. Dropping a line one tests the waters depth and brings up beautiful fish.... but unfortunately; not always it seems. 
 
@Golden Parrot I gots pretty scales though.
 

 

insanezenmistress yet still nobody has answered my question. If you have realized the unity of all that is, you should have no problem; if I pinch the tree do you say ouch? Speak!! Show me how beautiful your scales are.
 
@Golden Parrot I think your question is loaded and honestly without answer. It all about this self no self shit and I never understood it in any way I could grasp at with definitions. Over time the idea became more akin to trying to figure out if the earth is flat or round or perhaps stationary. It does not matter... I breath I pay my bills I study minds and stuff and anything I am aware of. If this is between a you and a me.... Then you are an image of where I can observe. A line of calculations a thought that was had be myself and will be has again in some kind of embodiment of is-ness....in that moment I see it. Blah blah breathe in breath out....no answers kid.....nothing to be had. But yet I exist and pay bills.
 
insanezenmistress the question may be loaded but it is not without answers. You could try asking me the same question.... 
 
@Golden Parrot That tree was cut down and made into a desk and chair long ago.
 
Vince Bartle so if I pinch the chair does the desk say ouch? 
 
@Michael Serebreny Well, if you pinch hard enough, and listen closely enough, there's a chance you'll hear it.

 

Vince Bartle will I hear the sound of the desk or will the desk hear the sound of itself? 
 
@Golden Parrot Listen closely, and you'll hear the desk listening.

 

Vince Bartle strike three; NEXT! 
 
@Golden Parrot Next what? There's no next, you're in a youtube comment section.

 

@Golden Parrot This is the premise of Dharma?
 
Vince Bartle next person who wants to attempt an answer. Although they need to mop all the mud off the floor first, you made quite a mess. 
 
Vince Bartle you've made the path quite slippery for others. 
 
@Golden Parrot Water tends to make things slippery. It takes dirt to produce mud.

 

Vince Bartle water tends to wash things clean but unfortunately where you live, water burns like fire, and stomachs can never be filled. 
 
@ Golden Parrot Wash things clean like the clean mud in a clean river. There's no fire here.
 
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@ Golden Parrot Stomachs are more often plagued by indigestion than starvation.
 
Vince Bartle that's what the children in the burning house thought, too. Like I said; NEXT!

 

  Golden Parrot delusions and fantasies

 

Thanks for telling people how to think πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„ 
 
@Golden Parrot what the experience is of being a Buddha?
 
middygreen what the experience is of being one with everything. If I pinch the tree, do you say ouch? 
 
@Golden Parrot the answer is no. i don't laugh when i tickle myself
 
middygreen that's about 6 or 7 out of 10 I'm impressed; now how do you express both sides simultaneously? 
 
@Golden Parrot that is impossible. you can't have a coherent expression without subject/object duality, we've reached the limits of language
 
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middygreen is that so? I say the finger you were pointing with could still be a bit more straight. 
 
@ Golden Parrot my crooked pinky is filled with more bliss-nectar than you in your next 100,000 incarnations. i will prove it to you too, unless you produce an answer: Picture a tree branch tipped with a bushel of quivering green leaves on a gusty day. Now, it is the leaves that move, or the wind that truly moves?
 
middygreen sound for sound, the parrot gives the call of the nightingale - but serve tea and she won't understand. Are you still flying flags? 
 
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middygreen still silent? The fact that you changed the original koan from a temple flag to leaves in a tree demonstrates that not only do you not understand flag nor wind, but also what was meant by "only your mind is moving." Don't stray too far during the next 100,000 rounds; you might need me.
 
Somebody is scared. πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜ 
 
@Golden Parrot Thank you for letting me ask, perhaps next time i will have the words. I dont know if i am closer to answering your question, in fact i dont know anything till it is asked. i has a very nice insight though. and HAHaha how i i put it into words it is all of them.
 
insanezenmistress insight, you say; I’ve been waiting 7 months (apparently). What have you realized? 
 
@Golden Parrot that you haven't been waiting you have been hearing me say ouch as your tree has been smacking me. Aw heck even that isn't clear since I said it. But in non fancy poetry...I was searching something out,it was a kind of teacher who wanted to make his own mystery school and I found myself seduced But then I started feeling like my mind was being torn. I felt like that teaching about the ox keeping her tail. Then it was all quiet and I settled down ... And knew differently.
 
@insanezenmistress why don’t you try it like this; If I pinch the tree do you say ouch? “No, but if you pinch me the tree says ouch.” This touches on unity and takes “you” out of the picture.
 
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@insanezenmistress thank you for helping me not to live a lie πŸ•‰☸️πŸ•‰
 
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@ Golden Parrot the pleasure was the tree's
 
@insanezenmistress :whack!: Watch it; what you just said is both true and indicative of schizophrenia. That song is only sung in private.

 

@Golden Parrot now that is something to learn....I. Fact the best I've heard. Thank you so very much. In private....that song is sung. Can't sing it out loud all the time because that's nuts. Lol. But really that is wonderful
 
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@Golden Parrot would you have some advice that I can use to help a dear old lady friend of mine? To put it poetically she has a lot of trees tormenting her mind. She is literally schizophrenic, but she is lovely and sweet. I am learning to hear her and to show her care. But all I can think to say to her, for her, is to try to put loving thoughts into her torment...because she can't even reason her way to peace. How can she be relieved?
 
@insanezenmistress it’s like someone once said at a wonderland tea party; we’re all mad here. Cheers πŸ₯‚
 
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@insanezenmistress Excellent! now we can talk about something important - took nearly a year but I’m glad we’re here. It’s really not my place to tell you how to live, but since you asked for the opinion of an entire mountain, get ready for a hike πŸ₯Ύ your realization is step one, not the finish line - and all you have now is a compass which, honestly, needs calibration if you’re to lead others to safety; the tree says “ouch,” but the pleasure should be all yours. Go to the symphony and say “I loved it so much I cried” and MEAN IT! Are you a living Buddha or a stone one? Otherwise you run the risk of going to a funeral and saying “Nobody died!” THAT kind of person is a danger to society - how much more so if they know their own death isn’t final? 
 
          Bursting into tears isn’t a failure “as a Buddhist,” it’s just that sometimes the Buddha cries. Wouldn’t be a real human if not. It should be “because hunger is an illusion, I make you food to eat;” not “I see you are in pain, let me explain why that’s stupid.” Buddhism is about easing suffering, yeah? The only way you can help anyone at all is by getting your non-existent self in shape first. Then: as for your friend - since schizophrenia can be defined as the inability to distinguish dream from reality - and since in practice we come to conclude that really reality IS no more than a gossamer thin dream - how can any of us reason our way to peace? Your friend is just having a more visceral experience of the same problem you are. 
 
      Nevertheless, I am reminded of a passage from the Surangama Sutra when the Buddha asked each of his disciples to explain how they attained liberation - which reads as follows; 
 
  “.....Then Suddhipanthaka rose from his seat and bowing down to the Lord Buddha said-Blessed Lord; before I met thee I had never recited scripture or put their teaching into practice because my memory was very poor. After I met my Lord Buddha, I listened to his teaching and became converted. I tried to remember the teaching, even a single verse of it, by repeating it over and over for a hundred days and failed. 
            If I succeeded in remembering the first part, I would forget the last part, and if I remembered the last part, I would forget the first part. My lord took pity on me and taught me to sit quietly with empty and tranquil mind simply trying to regulate my in and out breathing. Since then I have always concentrated my mind on my breathing which has gradually become more and more gentle and peaceful. At the same time the defilements of my mind caused by conceptions of re-birth, continuance, change and death gradually disappeared and my mind became enlightened. 
 
              In time I acquired entire freedom from all attachments and contaminant, so that I attained the degree of Arahat. I have since then become permanently tranquil under the influence of my lord Buddha, who later confirmed my attainment of perfect emancipation. In reply to my Lords inquiry, I witness that my approach to the unification of the eighteen spheres of mentation was by concentration of mind upon mΓΏ in and out breathing, by reason of which I attained to perfect emptiness of thinking. “ End quote. 
 
         We’ve already established that schizophrenia and enlightenment are as different as “you say potato, I say poTahto.”  Now I should be hit, but I think you get the point.
 
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@Golden Parrot this time i heard form the sutra and understood it better. any other time i throw it across the room and yell at Buddha for not saying it in English. climbing is good.
 
@Golden Parrot o so happy to be at the beginning ....again...lol. The other day before i wrote you back i was ....at a symphony and when i was looking over the program i noticed it mentioned...this was only act one.
 
@insanezenmistress that’s because you keep going to the pharmacy for samples of the most popular drugs - it’s not that kind of establishment. Sutras are medicine; when you’re sick, the doctor can tell you which one to take. Otherwise your literary studies should just be done like squirrel foraging for seeds, hold it in your cheeks to begin with, then plant them for later. (The resulting tree should be appreciated for it shade, not pinched.) Doing it the way you have been until now is none other than gulping down a bottle of antibiotics when you’re healthy and being mad it had no effect. Duh! You weren’t sick enough yet πŸ•―
 
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@insanezenmistress just remember this; the raven sits on the back of the bear while he forages for food and watches, in this way, the bird learns which berries are safe to eat, and which are poisonous. All of Shakyamuni’s words were plain English, today your ears grew.
 
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@Golden Parrot okay....yes... when i was younger and picked up little books with zen sayings.........all of it elixir all of it yummy. Those damned dead zen dudes knew everything about what was going on in my mind. So I picked up a book called Buddhist bible....and that Suganaananannaa sutra.....and well it wasn't elixir anymore but a chore . and i left it in hopes i could get to it later.
 
@insanezenmistress funny. I just wrote out page 231 of the Buddhist Bible for you in its entirety. So far I haven’t seen it go flying through the air I’d suggest next you go read page 283-287 which is the beginning of chapter 2 in the Lankavatara. Then come back and tell me what category the word “mind” falls into.
 
@Golden Parrot one question out of random curiosity. Is it possible to like.....experiences the symphony mutually with another living person? like could two be experiencing the same show with the same instruments? And tallk about it together?
 
@insanezenmistress depends on who you ask. Hotel California is run by a machine in Israel, and a theater company in India. But there are no actors in China.
 
 
(post edit dec 30 2020...original Oct 10 ish 2020...started Jan ? 2020 )
insanezenmistress
@Golden Parrot Mind is in the category of reality generation machine. It is like eyes/awareness. I would like to have a conversation with you but there is no way for me to share info here, and i dont want to go into details because i dont know any zenly way to ask about stuff. I am working on understanding the sutra part better but, I am having troubles with berries you might say. I can be contacted thru my blog in the comments If you would like. My mind is clouded because i think i have an unfinished business, and I'd let it go to the 550 Buddhas of Tibet but it still has meaning to me, i would crave good advice.
 
       But not here. This bit of thread i feel as been a beautiful fishing trip and should sit right where it sits, if you agree.
 
@insanezenmistress yes I do agree, and - for the benefit of all sentient beings - those reading this exchange in the future should do their best to generate the merit necessary to understand why. If one of these future aspirants should ask me about it, I would gladly respond; Because you don’t know the cold is winter; you can’t feel the summer breeze 🌬 🐴 πŸ’¨
@insanezenmistress also; some people kill the Buddha, others may tickle him. Either way come hang out with me and the dead zen dudes in the candy castle 🏰
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1 comment:

  1. how the fish still flops
    there's oxygen in water
    air is hard to breathe

    ReplyDelete

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